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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Rock and Roll&#8221; worship?</title>
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		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://www.rockworship.com/ministry-philosophy/rock-and-roll-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2005 17:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockworship.com/http:/www.rockworship.com/theology/rock-and-roll-worship/#comment-56</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree to an extent with what you&#039;re saying; however, why do non-believers believe the Christian life is a drag?  Is it because of the quality of music being produced under the label of &quot;Christian,&quot; or the inundation of the consumer market with poorly created &quot;Christian&quot; items, or even the &quot;cheesy Christian&quot; programming found on local and cable channels?  Personnaly, I believe it is because of how professing Christians are living their lives.  The Christian life should not be one of drudgery, but one of joy and hapiness because of our redemption to God through Jesus Christ.  John 15:11 says: &quot;These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.&quot;  The context surrounding this verse is Jesus&#039; discourse to His disciples on abiding in Christ.
Thus, I believe our joy in Christ should be heard in our music; however, the music should be a reflection of the joy in our lives because of Christ.  Are we joyful in our everyday lives (while at work, in the marketplace, among friend and family, etc.) and living this joy in its fullest?  Sadly, most (including me!) are not on a regular basis, or for some at all.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree to an extent with what you&#8217;re saying; however, why do non-believers believe the Christian life is a drag?  Is it because of the quality of music being produced under the label of &#8220;Christian,&#8221; or the inundation of the consumer market with poorly created &#8220;Christian&#8221; items, or even the &#8220;cheesy Christian&#8221; programming found on local and cable channels?  Personnaly, I believe it is because of how professing Christians are living their lives.  The Christian life should not be one of drudgery, but one of joy and hapiness because of our redemption to God through Jesus Christ.  John 15:11 says: &#8220;These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.&#8221;  The context surrounding this verse is Jesus&#8217; discourse to His disciples on abiding in Christ.
Thus, I believe our joy in Christ should be heard in our music; however, the music should be a reflection of the joy in our lives because of Christ.  Are we joyful in our everyday lives (while at work, in the marketplace, among friend and family, etc.) and living this joy in its fullest?  Sadly, most (including me!) are not on a regular basis, or for some at all.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lee in the FTC</title>
		<link>http://www.rockworship.com/ministry-philosophy/rock-and-roll-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee in the FTC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2005 03:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockworship.com/http:/www.rockworship.com/theology/rock-and-roll-worship/#comment-53</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I like the idea of entertaining worship.  But I think most people have a slightly skewed view of what entertainment is.  They think of sitting down infron of the TV in a vegitative state or playing some mindless Mario game.  That&#039;s not entertainment, that&#039;s boredom.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When I sit back and watch a movie, I&#039;m entertained in one fashion.  If it&#039;s a brainless comedy, I soon forget all about it, though I may quote lines, I usually pick them up from interacting with other people who are quoting those same lines, not from the movie itself.  But if I watch something epic, most recently &quot;The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe&quot;, I think about it for days.  Why?  Because it makes me want to participate in something greater than myself.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In the case of the brainless comedy, I remember the things that are repeated in interaction with other people.  In otherwords, I remember the parts that are talked about when I&#039;m experiencing fellowship.  I remember the parts that are brought up as I&#039;m caught up in my relationship with others, and not as part of the movie, but as a commonality between the two (or more) of us.  What makes Nepoleon Dynamite so great isn&#039;t the movie itself, but the quoting of it amongst friends, the immediate connection that happens when someone says &quot;are you drinking 1%?  Is that because you think you&#039;re fat?&quot;  There&#039;s a connection that happens there, and relationship, biblically defined, is greater than yourself.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In the terms of the epic movie, I want to be caught up into a story that is greater than myself.  This is what happens when I worship as well.  First off, there is a connection that happens when you worship amongst friends.  It is a rare thing that I want to go sit by myself and be alone during worship.  More often than not, I want to sit with my team and experience fellowship as I&#039;m pouring out my heart to God.  Secondly, I&#039;m caught up in something far greater than just my own story when I do.  I&#039;m caught up in God, enthralled in a way that is far, far greater than seeing Aslan roar on the big screen.  I&#039;m enthralled with a living God who I am humbly submitting to in worship.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;By that deffinition, then, the most entertaining thing is to be pleased in being caught up in something amazing.  The best concerts are the ones where you know all of the words and belt them out at the top of your lungs.  You participate.  True entertainment is participation.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I like the idea of entertaining worship.  It&#039;s a hard thing to pour out and be honest when you don&#039;t enjoy what you&#039;re hearing.  Let&#039;s be honest here, I can&#039;t help but laugh at 1992 Kirk Franklin stuff.  But when I&#039;m the Rock, I enjoy the music.  I allow it to move me.  I think that&#039;s perfectly fine.  I can focus on the lyrics much more when I can enjoy the music.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;However, one thing that I think we discovered here is that the music isn&#039;t neccessarily what will keep people coming back, but the integrity of the worship is.  We stopped doing radio covers and do 2 more worship songs instead.  I think anyone who comes to the Rock and sees what&#039;s going on, the music will aid them in wanting to be caught up in something bigger, not because of the coolness of it, but because of it&#039;s authenticity.  The gospel is the only relevant thing that we need, and if people see that we are entertained by that definition, then I think they&#039;ll listen to the message that much more.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Anyway, good thoughts.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;~L&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the idea of entertaining worship.  But I think most people have a slightly skewed view of what entertainment is.  They think of sitting down infron of the TV in a vegitative state or playing some mindless Mario game.  That&#8217;s not entertainment, that&#8217;s boredom.</p>

<p>When I sit back and watch a movie, I&#8217;m entertained in one fashion.  If it&#8217;s a brainless comedy, I soon forget all about it, though I may quote lines, I usually pick them up from interacting with other people who are quoting those same lines, not from the movie itself.  But if I watch something epic, most recently &#8220;The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe&#8221;, I think about it for days.  Why?  Because it makes me want to participate in something greater than myself.</p>

<p>In the case of the brainless comedy, I remember the things that are repeated in interaction with other people.  In otherwords, I remember the parts that are talked about when I&#8217;m experiencing fellowship.  I remember the parts that are brought up as I&#8217;m caught up in my relationship with others, and not as part of the movie, but as a commonality between the two (or more) of us.  What makes Nepoleon Dynamite so great isn&#8217;t the movie itself, but the quoting of it amongst friends, the immediate connection that happens when someone says &#8220;are you drinking 1%?  Is that because you think you&#8217;re fat?&#8221;  There&#8217;s a connection that happens there, and relationship, biblically defined, is greater than yourself.</p>

<p>In the terms of the epic movie, I want to be caught up into a story that is greater than myself.  This is what happens when I worship as well.  First off, there is a connection that happens when you worship amongst friends.  It is a rare thing that I want to go sit by myself and be alone during worship.  More often than not, I want to sit with my team and experience fellowship as I&#8217;m pouring out my heart to God.  Secondly, I&#8217;m caught up in something far greater than just my own story when I do.  I&#8217;m caught up in God, enthralled in a way that is far, far greater than seeing Aslan roar on the big screen.  I&#8217;m enthralled with a living God who I am humbly submitting to in worship.</p>

<p>By that deffinition, then, the most entertaining thing is to be pleased in being caught up in something amazing.  The best concerts are the ones where you know all of the words and belt them out at the top of your lungs.  You participate.  True entertainment is participation.</p>

<p>I like the idea of entertaining worship.  It&#8217;s a hard thing to pour out and be honest when you don&#8217;t enjoy what you&#8217;re hearing.  Let&#8217;s be honest here, I can&#8217;t help but laugh at 1992 Kirk Franklin stuff.  But when I&#8217;m the Rock, I enjoy the music.  I allow it to move me.  I think that&#8217;s perfectly fine.  I can focus on the lyrics much more when I can enjoy the music.</p>

<p>However, one thing that I think we discovered here is that the music isn&#8217;t neccessarily what will keep people coming back, but the integrity of the worship is.  We stopped doing radio covers and do 2 more worship songs instead.  I think anyone who comes to the Rock and sees what&#8217;s going on, the music will aid them in wanting to be caught up in something bigger, not because of the coolness of it, but because of it&#8217;s authenticity.  The gospel is the only relevant thing that we need, and if people see that we are entertained by that definition, then I think they&#8217;ll listen to the message that much more.</p>

<p>Anyway, good thoughts.</p>

<p>~L</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.rockworship.com/ministry-philosophy/rock-and-roll-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockworship.com/http:/www.rockworship.com/theology/rock-and-roll-worship/#comment-6</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Rock out man!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rock out man!</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike in Fort Collins</title>
		<link>http://www.rockworship.com/ministry-philosophy/rock-and-roll-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike in Fort Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockworship.com/http:/www.rockworship.com/theology/rock-and-roll-worship/#comment-5</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oops, Joshua, not Gideon. Sloppy.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, Joshua, not Gideon. Sloppy.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike in Fort Collins</title>
		<link>http://www.rockworship.com/ministry-philosophy/rock-and-roll-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike in Fort Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockworship.com/http:/www.rockworship.com/theology/rock-and-roll-worship/#comment-4</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Huh,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I tend to agree with the outlook of the &quot;ineffective&quot; post where it concerns culture and direction. I would add that I tend to thing that we need to develop leaders who are obedient to God primarily in order to achieve the goals he speaks of. I am certainly not a man of great wisdom to be talking or anything, but it strikes me that the kingdom is one &quot;not made by human hands&quot; according to Daniel. I agree that it is going to take men on the ground, and for that, we are going to need men on the ground who aren’t playing around. I tend to think that God is going to have to be calling the shots, even when they make no sense whatsoever to us. When God told Gideon to march around Jericho and then go home it must have sounded a little silly, but he did it, and God showed up.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The &quot;evil&quot; one is a mess. They only bothered to quote one verse about worship in the whole thing:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord&quot; (Eph 5:19)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;They decided that God hated &quot;rock and roll&quot; and then threw a bunch of other verses about evil at it. I don’t think we need to do that since God said plenty about worship directly here are only a few of dozens at least:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Psalm 27:6
Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the LORD.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Psalm 33:1
Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous; it is fitting for the upright to praise him.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Psalm 33:3
Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Jesus Himself had some words for people who like to write their own ideas of what God like and doesn’t:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Mark 7:6 He replied, &quot;Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: &#039;These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.&#039; You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.&quot; And he said to them: &quot;You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I say again:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Psalm 33:3
Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So did God tell us to abandon traditions in favor of God’s commands or not? Did He command us to sing a “new song” or not. Did He command us to shout our worship or not?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;How aboot these?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;2 Chronicles 15:14 They took an oath to the LORD with loud acclamation, with shouting and with trumpets and horns. 15 All Judah rejoiced about the oath because they had sworn it wholeheartedly. They sought God eagerly, and he was found by them. So the LORD gave them rest on every side.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ezra 3:11
With praise and thanksgiving they sang to the LORD : &quot;He is good; his love to Israel endures forever.&quot; And all the people gave a great shout of praise to the LORD,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Psalm 95:1
Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Psalm 98:4
Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth, burst into jubilant song with music;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You know, the worship leader can say “Lets all shout to the Lord” and the congribots can say “yea,” but I am not sure that is what David meant. I for one would rather stand among men and women who “burst” with shouting and jubilant song. I deeply enjoy hymns and solemnity in worship. I also deeply enjoy shouting aloud to the God of Thunder and Lightning, The God of Super Novae, The Mighty Untamable God of the Universe.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I sometimes feel a little like Job when defending the hearts of worship that I know in the people around me, especially when scripture is on my side about it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Job 13:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;7 Will you speak wickedly on God&#039;s behalf? 
       Will you speak deceitfully for him?
9 Would it turn out well if he examined you? 
       Could you deceive him as you might deceive men?
11 Would not his splendor terrify you? 
       Would not the dread of him fall on you? 
12 Your maxims are proverbs of ashes; 
       your defenses are defenses of clay. 
13 &quot;Keep silent and let me speak; 
       then let come to me what may. 
15 Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him; 
       I will surely defend my ways to his face.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As far as entertainment goes… I don’t know if I agree with that either. I am not entertained, I am enthralled. I am connected to. We were made for worship. If I am capable of being enthralled with the music and volume of worship it is because God made me to be enthralled with Him and to express it through music and song and shouting. If the same thing happens at rock concerts it is because Satan loves to make cheap knockoffs of the real thing and implement them without the Glory of God intact. Same story with Sex. Same story with celebrity hero worship. “r”ock concerts are a tale full of sound and fury signifying nothing. “R”ock concerts are a tale of sound and fury, glorifying a God of sound and fury, filled with the only eternal significance we can know, worship.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;God is a God of pipe organs and four part harmonies that, in their simplicity, thunder with the weight of his glory. He is also a God of Thunder and Glory that, in their majesty, reflect just the faintest shadow of His Might.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ok, there is my $.02&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh,</p>

<p>I tend to agree with the outlook of the &#8220;ineffective&#8221; post where it concerns culture and direction. I would add that I tend to thing that we need to develop leaders who are obedient to God primarily in order to achieve the goals he speaks of. I am certainly not a man of great wisdom to be talking or anything, but it strikes me that the kingdom is one &#8220;not made by human hands&#8221; according to Daniel. I agree that it is going to take men on the ground, and for that, we are going to need men on the ground who aren’t playing around. I tend to think that God is going to have to be calling the shots, even when they make no sense whatsoever to us. When God told Gideon to march around Jericho and then go home it must have sounded a little silly, but he did it, and God showed up.</p>

<p>The &#8220;evil&#8221; one is a mess. They only bothered to quote one verse about worship in the whole thing:</p>

<p>&#8220;Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord&#8221; (Eph 5:19)</p>

<p>They decided that God hated &#8220;rock and roll&#8221; and then threw a bunch of other verses about evil at it. I don’t think we need to do that since God said plenty about worship directly here are only a few of dozens at least:</p>

<p>Psalm 27:6
Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the LORD.</p>

<p>Psalm 33:1
Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous; it is fitting for the upright to praise him.</p>

<p>Psalm 33:3
Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy.</p>

<p>Jesus Himself had some words for people who like to write their own ideas of what God like and doesn’t:</p>

<p>Mark 7:6 He replied, &#8220;Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: &#8216;These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.&#8217; You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.&#8221; And he said to them: &#8220;You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!</p>

<p>I say again:</p>

<p>Psalm 33:3
Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy.</p>

<p>So did God tell us to abandon traditions in favor of God’s commands or not? Did He command us to sing a “new song” or not. Did He command us to shout our worship or not?</p>

<p>How aboot these?</p>

<p>2 Chronicles 15:14 They took an oath to the LORD with loud acclamation, with shouting and with trumpets and horns. 15 All Judah rejoiced about the oath because they had sworn it wholeheartedly. They sought God eagerly, and he was found by them. So the LORD gave them rest on every side.</p>

<p>Ezra 3:11
With praise and thanksgiving they sang to the LORD : &#8220;He is good; his love to Israel endures forever.&#8221; And all the people gave a great shout of praise to the LORD,</p>

<p>Psalm 95:1
Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.</p>

<p>Psalm 98:4
Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth, burst into jubilant song with music;</p>

<p>You know, the worship leader can say “Lets all shout to the Lord” and the congribots can say “yea,” but I am not sure that is what David meant. I for one would rather stand among men and women who “burst” with shouting and jubilant song. I deeply enjoy hymns and solemnity in worship. I also deeply enjoy shouting aloud to the God of Thunder and Lightning, The God of Super Novae, The Mighty Untamable God of the Universe.</p>

<p>I sometimes feel a little like Job when defending the hearts of worship that I know in the people around me, especially when scripture is on my side about it.</p>

<p>Job 13:</p>

<p>7 Will you speak wickedly on God&#8217;s behalf? 
       Will you speak deceitfully for him?
9 Would it turn out well if he examined you? 
       Could you deceive him as you might deceive men?
11 Would not his splendor terrify you? 
       Would not the dread of him fall on you? 
12 Your maxims are proverbs of ashes; 
       your defenses are defenses of clay. 
13 &#8220;Keep silent and let me speak; 
       then let come to me what may. 
15 Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him; 
       I will surely defend my ways to his face.</p>

<p>As far as entertainment goes… I don’t know if I agree with that either. I am not entertained, I am enthralled. I am connected to. We were made for worship. If I am capable of being enthralled with the music and volume of worship it is because God made me to be enthralled with Him and to express it through music and song and shouting. If the same thing happens at rock concerts it is because Satan loves to make cheap knockoffs of the real thing and implement them without the Glory of God intact. Same story with Sex. Same story with celebrity hero worship. “r”ock concerts are a tale full of sound and fury signifying nothing. “R”ock concerts are a tale of sound and fury, glorifying a God of sound and fury, filled with the only eternal significance we can know, worship.</p>

<p>God is a God of pipe organs and four part harmonies that, in their simplicity, thunder with the weight of his glory. He is also a God of Thunder and Glory that, in their majesty, reflect just the faintest shadow of His Might.</p>

<p>Ok, there is my $.02</p>]]></content:encoded>
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