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]]> By: Broken Hearted http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-15464 Broken Hearted Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:05:59 +0000 http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-15464 DanielR wrote: "I agree the characterization of “some effeminate guy on an acoustic guitar” is un-called for and out of line. But then, that’s nothing new from Mark. With Mark it’s 50/50 whether it was unintentionally or purposefully inflamatory, ignorance or attitude. You gotta take anything Mark says with a grain of salt..." What a sorry indictment. DanielR wrote: “I agree the characterization of “some effeminate guy on an acoustic guitar” is un-called for and out of line. But then, that’s nothing new from Mark. With Mark it’s 50/50 whether it was unintentionally or purposefully inflamatory, ignorance or attitude. You gotta take anything Mark says with a grain of salt…”
What a sorry indictment.

]]> By: Daniel Gonske http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-13809 Daniel Gonske Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:58:47 +0000 http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-13809 Guys, do not be dogmatic about this. Remember this: Titus 3:9 "avoid foolish controversies" Guys, do not be dogmatic about this. Remember this: Titus 3:9 “avoid foolish controversies”

]]> By: randall http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-13633 randall Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:44:46 +0000 http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-13633 Mark has a good point. But I think it spills over to keyboard playing worship leaders too. Are we men? Are we women? I play acoustic guitar for God and I want to be happy at the end of worshipping the living, mighty God. Many "great" worship leaders make me want to stab myself during some of the choruses. How many times do we have to sing the same two lines in nasly voices before we can move on to the next song? It is not the Worship Leaders job to set a mood or manipulating peoples feelings or dimming the lights. It is his job to bring it real. Lead in worshipping God by facilitating edifying music that glorifies Jesus. Too many WL's make it into a performance or concert type of thing where the congregation occasionally gets to sing when the "praise team" is not soloing. Let the people lift there voices for God...not for them or you. Mark has a good point. But I think it spills over to keyboard playing worship leaders too. Are we men? Are we women? I play acoustic guitar for God and I want to be happy at the end of worshipping the living, mighty God. Many “great” worship leaders make me want to stab myself during some of the choruses. How many times do we have to sing the same two lines in nasly voices before we can move on to the next song? It is not the Worship Leaders job to set a mood or manipulating peoples feelings or dimming the lights. It is his job to bring it real. Lead in worshipping God by facilitating edifying music that glorifies Jesus. Too many WL’s make it into a performance or concert type of thing where the congregation occasionally gets to sing when the “praise team” is not soloing. Let the people lift there voices for God…not for them or you.

]]> By: ryan http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-10879 ryan Mon, 11 Feb 2008 16:30:45 +0000 http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-10879 "Okay, I admit to not being objective about this quote. But in my opinion, Mark Driscoll and this comment rocks! Although this is just one part of the issue, the style of worship music, worship lyrics, how many worship songs, how worship music is presented, what does the worship singer look like, how does the worship leader hold himself, etc. is one of the many reasons that men are bored stiff in church, why men are not challenged in church and why men are turned off and not coming to church. For churches to bury their head in the sand and say, “If men don’t like the music, then tough crap!” is the wrong answer. If we know that when a man comes to church, the family will follow, why aren’t we making churches a place that men feel welcome. I went to a church on Sunday that has made changes to target men. I not only saw a whole lot of strong men. I also saw a whole lot of happy women who love seeing men get excited and passionate about church. Mike Ellis" that's quite a statement there, mike. i am a worship leader, and i do play guitar, and i have long hair, and oh my gosh...i even have earrings! but guess what, mike...about 1100 people come to my church on Sunday morning, and you know what? about 50 percent of those are men! and a lot of the biggest compliments and thank you's that i recieve on a Sunday morning come from some of the most many men i've ever met, so i'm not quite sure where the assumption that churches are dying because "men" don't like the music comes from, because i sure don't see it happening. however, if i could, for one moment, turn your argument around, i would say that this incredibly narrow version of what makes a "man" is part of the reason that so many men's ministries miss out on attracting a large population of men (who, despite your definition of "man" are artistic, musical, writers, unathletic, and are still men in every sense of the word). why is it that all men's events and study materials have to feature sports analogies, we have to hear sermons from football coaches, etc? you're alienating a whole segment of the population, but i bet you don't think you need to change what you do. you'd rather the church change it's music to fit your idea of "manly." what do you suggest we do, dress in flannel and sing "the lumberjack song"? i know this comes across sounding harsh, but i just think we need to be careful about making assumptions that we know what all men should be like. by the way, i've read "wild at heart", and it was one of my favorite books, in terms of making me realize my place as a man, but it in no way made me feel like i needed to become a hunter, a sports fan, or a music hater, so where do we get off thinking that this is what a man is "supposed to be?" can someone enlighten me? “Okay, I admit to not being objective about this quote. But in my opinion, Mark Driscoll and this comment rocks! Although this is just one part of the issue, the style of worship music, worship lyrics, how many worship songs, how worship music is presented, what does the worship singer look like, how does the worship leader hold himself, etc. is one of the many reasons that men are bored stiff in church, why men are not challenged in church and why men are turned off and not coming to church. For churches to bury their head in the sand and say, “If men don’t like the music, then tough crap!” is the wrong answer. If we know that when a man comes to church, the family will follow, why aren’t we making churches a place that men feel welcome. I went to a church on Sunday that has made changes to target men. I not only saw a whole lot of strong men. I also saw a whole lot of happy women who love seeing men get excited and passionate about church.

Mike Ellis”

that’s quite a statement there, mike. i am a worship leader, and i do play guitar, and i have long hair, and oh my gosh…i even have earrings! but guess what, mike…about 1100 people come to my church on Sunday morning, and you know what? about 50 percent of those are men! and a lot of the biggest compliments and thank you’s that i recieve on a Sunday morning come from some of the most many men i’ve ever met, so i’m not quite sure where the assumption that churches are dying because “men” don’t like the music comes from, because i sure don’t see it happening.

however, if i could, for one moment, turn your argument around, i would say that this incredibly narrow version of what makes a “man” is part of the reason that so many men’s ministries miss out on attracting a large population of men (who, despite your definition of “man” are artistic, musical, writers, unathletic, and are still men in every sense of the word). why is it that all men’s events and study materials have to feature sports analogies, we have to hear sermons from football coaches, etc? you’re alienating a whole segment of the population, but i bet you don’t think you need to change what you do. you’d rather the church change it’s music to fit your idea of “manly.” what do you suggest we do, dress in flannel and sing “the lumberjack song”?

i know this comes across sounding harsh, but i just think we need to be careful about making assumptions that we know what all men should be like.

by the way, i’ve read “wild at heart”, and it was one of my favorite books, in terms of making me realize my place as a man, but it in no way made me feel like i needed to become a hunter, a sports fan, or a music hater, so where do we get off thinking that this is what a man is “supposed to be?” can someone enlighten me?

]]> By: Mike http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-10015 Mike Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:03:17 +0000 http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-10015 Patty Marine's comments above strike a chord (nice pun) with me. Maybe someone (Doc?) can come along and define what a 'manly' worship service looks like in terms of song choice, style, anything at all? By the way, the chest beaters here must 'hate' Keith Green and his songs like 'Oh Lord, you're beatiful'. Patty Marine’s comments above strike a chord (nice pun) with me. Maybe someone (Doc?) can come along and define what a ‘manly’ worship service looks like in terms of song choice, style, anything at all? By the way, the chest beaters here must ‘hate’ Keith Green and his songs like ‘Oh Lord, you’re beatiful’.

]]> By: Chris http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-9643 Chris Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:08:44 +0000 http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-9643 That Driscoll can be a hard scoundrel, alright. But when he's right, he's right. As for the previous comment, I don't think I would be too quick to equate having a recording contract with CCM with being anointed by God. There is a great deal of music out there that sells, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is anointed by God for service in his church. Mark is right about the effeminate thing. Record labels produce what sells. And what sells is a reflection of our society. And our society promotes a watered down version of what it means to be a Christian man. Consequently, the music produced by record companies reflects that. Each church should be seeking to worship God in a way that reflects its own context, relevant to the people who are doing the worshipping, rather than merely falling in line with what comes out of Nashville. That Driscoll can be a hard scoundrel, alright. But when he’s right, he’s right. As for the previous comment, I don’t think I would be too quick to equate having a recording contract with CCM with being anointed by God. There is a great deal of music out there that sells, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is anointed by God for service in his church. Mark is right about the effeminate thing. Record labels produce what sells. And what sells is a reflection of our society. And our society promotes a watered down version of what it means to be a Christian man. Consequently, the music produced by record companies reflects that. Each church should be seeking to worship God in a way that reflects its own context, relevant to the people who are doing the worshipping, rather than merely falling in line with what comes out of Nashville.

]]> By: Patty Marine http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-8029 Patty Marine Sun, 04 Nov 2007 05:17:10 +0000 http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-8029 I am greatly saddened by the preceeding comments by Mark Driscoll. Has he forgotten that we have an audience of one...only one. He sounds like a modern day Cain to me, jealous and angry because the Lord has chosen to annoint and use in greater measure others who are unlike him. His murder is slander and accusation of his brothers in Christ. Jesus prayed for our unity and love for one another. Comments and leadership like this is sinful and a cancer to the Bride of Christ. Is it no wonder that the very people we are commissioned to reach are repulsed by the way that we treat each other! Maybe it is time to go back to basics and remember what worship is all about and repent for the rebellious religious public displays of self indulgence that are being suggested. As for "manly worship" am I understanding correctly? Unless "worship" meets a "manly" test there are those who will not participate? Isn't that like being asked by Jesus when He was alive to become one of His disciples and telling Him,"No thanks those others guys that travel with you are too strange so I'll pass." God inhabits the praises of His people... are you saying you willfully refuse to meet with Him because the worship leader or songs are not to your liking? As for songs from the bottom up... I am a songwriter and my songs are sung around the world. I speak from experience when I say some songs are written and some songs are inspired. Inspired songs I would dare say are the ones we all desire. Therefore lets put away this nonsense and focus our time and hearts on the King and His Kingdom allowing Him to write the music that most exhalts and blesses Him. Then we will write the songs that are for our families, churches, cities, countries and the whole earth. I am greatly saddened by the preceeding comments by Mark Driscoll. Has he forgotten that we have an audience of one…only one. He sounds like a modern day Cain to me, jealous and angry because the Lord has chosen to annoint and use in greater measure others who are unlike him. His murder is slander and accusation of his brothers in Christ. Jesus prayed for our unity and love for one another. Comments and leadership like this is sinful and a cancer to the Bride of Christ. Is it no wonder that the very people we are commissioned to reach are repulsed by the way that we treat each other! Maybe it is time to go back to basics and remember what worship is all about and repent for the rebellious religious public displays of self indulgence that are being suggested. As for “manly worship” am I understanding correctly? Unless “worship” meets a “manly” test there are those who will not participate? Isn’t that like being asked by Jesus when He was alive to become one of His disciples and telling Him,”No thanks those others guys that travel with you are too strange so I’ll pass.” God inhabits the praises of His people… are you saying you willfully refuse to meet with Him because the worship leader or songs are not to your liking? As for songs from the bottom up… I am a songwriter and my songs are sung around the world. I speak from experience when I say some songs are written and some songs are inspired. Inspired songs I would dare say are the ones we all desire. Therefore lets put away this nonsense and focus our time and hearts on the King and His Kingdom allowing Him to write the music that most exhalts and blesses Him. Then we will write the songs that are for our families, churches, cities, countries and the whole earth.

]]> By: John Green http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-7404 John Green Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:16:03 +0000 http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-7404 I'd be interested in getting feedback from guys looking for 'manly' worship songs with regard to two of my songs: Holy Moment and No Way I Am Not Ashamed (the version with Jimmy Aweira on vocals) both can be found at: http://recentrainfall.com/page4.html and my email is listed on that site. So, if you are interested in listening and giving your comments, I appreciate it! I’d be interested in getting feedback from guys looking for ‘manly’ worship songs with regard to two of my songs:

Holy Moment
and
No Way I Am Not Ashamed (the version with Jimmy Aweira on vocals)

both can be found at:
http://recentrainfall.com/page4.html
and my email is listed on that site.

So, if you are interested in listening and giving your comments, I appreciate it!

]]> By: Doc Allen http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-6078 Doc Allen Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:56:53 +0000 http://www.rockworship.com/song-writing/mark-driscoll-on-the-future-of-worship-music/#comment-6078 SD is a classic example of what is wrong with the church. Please remember that in my previous posting I wrote that before any problem can be solved one must have "awareness, acceptence, and action" and SD has not even hit the awareness part. SD states that, "Different churches have different flavors" and this goes to show that SD does not even understand the problem. The problem SD is that if you choose feminized worship music as your "flavor" what are the masculine men supposed to do, simply sing chick music and be happy? Well I have news for you this is never going to happen. Are you really lacking the common sense which should inform you that men and women are wired differently? If you fail to understand this let me enlighten you. Women tend to like "chick-lit" which centers around romance and relationships (how many men do you find flipping through the pages of a romance novel at Barnes & Noble); and men tend to like action oriented stuff like the "Jason Bourne" series or Tom Clancy's books on "Jack Ryan". When a person speaks about a "chick flick" it is once again usually understood that such movies center around the theme of romance or relationships, and when one speaks of guy movies people understand that these are probably action oriented and gory. So why do you fail to see that there is "chick worship music" such as the song "Jesus lover of my soul" (gag) illustrates and there is masculine worship music such as "A mighty fortress is our God" or "The battle belongs to the Lord". By the way you might want to read through the Psalms because the majority of them have to do with military victories over Israel's enemies, this should be a given since David was a warrior king. So my question to you is how can you possiblly justify choosing feminized worship music as your "flavor" when most men (except effeminate ones) are wired differently and do not worship like girls. Are you going to simply try to force men to worship like girls, because if that is your intention you are going to fail huge and you will become one of the reasons why "Men Hate Going To Church" as David Murrow's book is entitled. In Christ The Victorious King, Doc Allen SD is a classic example of what is wrong with the church. Please remember that in my previous posting I wrote that before any problem can be solved one must have “awareness, acceptence, and action” and SD has not even hit the awareness part. SD states that, “Different churches have different flavors” and this goes to show that SD does not even understand the problem. The problem SD is that if you choose feminized worship music as your “flavor” what are the masculine men supposed to do, simply sing chick music and be happy? Well I have news for you this is never going to happen. Are you really lacking the common sense which should inform you that men and women are wired differently? If you fail to understand this let me enlighten you. Women tend to like “chick-lit” which centers around romance and relationships (how many men do you find flipping through the pages of a romance novel at Barnes & Noble); and men tend to like action oriented stuff like the “Jason Bourne” series or Tom Clancy’s books on “Jack Ryan”. When a person speaks about a “chick flick” it is once again usually understood that such movies center around the theme of romance or relationships, and when one speaks of guy movies people understand that these are probably action oriented and gory. So why do you fail to see that there is “chick worship music” such as the song “Jesus lover of my soul” (gag) illustrates and there is masculine worship music such as “A mighty fortress is our God” or “The battle belongs to the Lord”. By the way you might want to read through the Psalms because the majority of them have to do with military victories over Israel’s enemies, this should be a given since David was a warrior king. So my question to you is how can you possiblly justify choosing feminized worship music as your “flavor” when most men (except effeminate ones) are wired differently and do not worship like girls. Are you going to simply try to force men to worship like girls, because if that is your intention you are going to fail huge and you will become one of the reasons why “Men Hate Going To Church” as David Murrow’s book is entitled.

In Christ The Victorious King,

Doc Allen

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